While portfolio reviews abound, I get the
privilege of looking at over 300 portfolios in a 3 month period. During this process, I often get asked about
a tutoring program called Classical Conversations. This post is to
educate myself as well as give information on the topic, MY opinions, and personal decisions
related to abstaining from the program.
In fact, this platform was not even heard of three-four years ago in my
homeschool cooperative & support group. Now it infiltrates a lot of
basic questions on our support group Facebook feed (and other Facebook groups on which I am a member) as a solution to many of the basic inquiries & as a potential answer to these mother's typical newbie questions. There are many ‘open houses’
and ‘information meetings’ about this program.
What is Classical Conversations? Is it for me?
According to the website
(www.classicalconversations.com),
“It’s
a Mission The purpose of education is to know God and to make Him known. Our purpose is to lead the
home-centered education movement by equipping parents and students with
the classical tools of learning needed to discover the order and beauty of
God’s creation and to inspire others to do the same.
We believe parents are their children’s primary teachers not because parents know everything but because each child is uniquely (and wonderfully!) made and because the people who know and love a child best are the ones most motivated to help that child succeed.
We empower and support parents not only through our Classical Conversations Communities across the country but also through our specially designed CC Connected online community, Parent Practicums, and academic retreats. All of these services ultimately equip parents to educate their children with the classical tools of learning and a biblical worldview so that they might impact the world for God’s glory.”
We believe parents are their children’s primary teachers not because parents know everything but because each child is uniquely (and wonderfully!) made and because the people who know and love a child best are the ones most motivated to help that child succeed.
We empower and support parents not only through our Classical Conversations Communities across the country but also through our specially designed CC Connected online community, Parent Practicums, and academic retreats. All of these services ultimately equip parents to educate their children with the classical tools of learning and a biblical worldview so that they might impact the world for God’s glory.”
Initial
thoughts were:
Interesting
to see them call homeschooling “home-centered” education movement? Interesting as well that they believe the
parents are the child’s primary teachers, but a ‘tutor’ is involved to teach.
Interesting to me too that they ‘ultimately equip parents to educate their
children…’ with tools of learning… I
thought God will equip the called. I’m
called to home educate my children, right?
My
initial reaction to the concept of a once a week school environment was simply,
“I wouldn't want to get all of my kids (8) up and about on any scheduled day of the
week”. Been there, done that! I currently
do co-op classes already with two different coops for enrichment purposes (i.e. lab, social study, PE, culture study, music class, symphony, sign language). These are either four or six week classes for
2-3 hours each. I teach at these co-op
classes too - because I'm passionate and knowledgeable in my subjects.
Personally, I know
how I feel at the end of teaching a simple hour long class for six weeks. Whew….
I’m done! I then enjoy the days
after the co-op reflecting on what my kids learned and accomplished. We finish up any books or work that was handed out for supplements. I love the enrichment that the occasional
co-op provides; however, I do not want my children to be ‘taught’ or ‘tutored’
by others when I am capable of doing that myself. Why am I capable? Because I’m their mom! I don’t want anyone else to be the primary
influence in my child’s life – that’s why I home school.
You see, (let me say this again) I want to be the primary influence in my kids’ lives – educational and otherwise. I want my husband to be the other primary influence. We have a daunting task of “training up our children in the way they should go…” I choose not to contract that out to another person, another school system, or another group. AND, I want to pick MY own curriculum (and who wouldn't? – that’s like Christmas shopping, but better!).
With all that being said, there are studies that track
homeschoolers academic strides and we’ve all heard the saying “Homeschoolers
out score public school kids” or something similar. A more official quote from Concordia
University [http://concordia.ca/headlines]
states the following:
“Research conducted by Sandra
Martin-Chang, an assistant professor in Concordia's Department of Education,
shows that children who were home-schooled scored higher than their peers in
seven different subjects”
It is interesting to me that they do not address
the curriculum utilized, co-ops attended, tutors’ employed, etc. to make such
statements. That is freeing to know I do
not NEED a program as ‘organized’ as Classical Conversations to excel in home
education! It is freeing to know I shop
for my own curriculum based upon the individual child’s learning style and
needs (i.e. learning gaps and or interests). My son "needs" to study trains, planes, automobiles, roller coasters, simple / complex machines, piano, weather, etc. And he wants to spend all day/week on these topics! I'm exaggerating a bit, but you get the idea.... My girls wanna cook, bake, read (for hours), sew, learn geography, do art, learn about musicians, and Driver's Ed.!
Where do families get homeschool curriculum? What exactly are these stats on home educated students? Homeschool-by-design.com states this information:
The National Center for Education
Statistics reports
that:
78% Public Library
77% Homeschool catalog, publisher or individual
specialist
69% Retail Bookstore
60% Other non homeschooling educational publisher
41% Distance learning program
Many
homeschool families use several sources for their curriculum.
National
Average Percentile Scores
Subtest
|
Homeschool
|
Public School
|
Reading
|
89
|
50
|
Language
|
84
|
50
|
Math
|
84
|
50
|
Science
|
86
|
50
|
Social Studies
|
84
|
50
|
In my
next blog post (a few days from now), I will discuss my take on a few breakdowns of this tutoring
program. I've researched Jay Wile
(nuclear scientist, textbook author, and college professor) and Diana Waring’s topic
of “Homeschooling: The Environment for
Genius”. I enjoyed learning about this
topic because it was freeing to think I did not have to have my kids
‘socialized’ as much as “experts” think I do. Preview the video here: Jay Wile & Diana Waring discuss "Homeschooling: Environment for Genius"
What have you heard about socializing your home educated children? Is this why Classical Conversations is so unique: socializing among kids / socializing among moms / a sense of community?
I initially was opposed to Classical Conversations because I thought I would be giving up choosing curriculum and being the primary influence for my kids. For me, it was almost a pride issue. When my middle school daughter found a catalog and said, "I think I would like to be a part of that program. I want to sit around and talk about books and latin and math!" I was hurt initially....or maybe my pride was hurt. I was learning at the time that my daughter wanted more than me and my kitchen table. She hungered for more and thirst for more....books, learning, understanding, discussion. I am not saying I was not capable. Our homeschool rocked and we had done it for 8 years without CC. My kids are smart, social and cool! So, why in the world did I need to add to it with CC? After stepping over my pride and deciding to try CC, we were pleasantly surprised! What they say is, in fact, true. Parents are the teachers and the tutors do in fact help you with the tools of learning. I don't have to drag my kids out of bed each week, they wake me up and beg to go "early". I like to say that CC is to homeschooling like Bible studies are to church. Neither is necessary but both provide fellowship, accountability and take learning to a higher level. My daughter and I no longer butt heads about writing. She actually is motivated to meet writing deadlines because she knows she is going to be reading her paper in front of her class. At the same time, if we have had a busy week or someone has been sick, I can let the tutor know we don't have a paper and it's not a big deal, because I am the teacher and final authority. It is not a school environment. It is a group of homeschoolers that meet in fellowship and learning once a week and then spend the other 4 days at home doing what they do to homeschool. The other four days, you get to pick how you want to incorporate the subjects covered at CC. I have blended book baskets, Charlotte Mason techniques and other eclectic styles into our weeks based on what kid or what year it was. It is flexible and it can be tailored to learning styles. Truly, I could talk about it forever. I just wanted to share my two cents as I was HIGHLY critical of the program before we actually knew much about it.
ReplyDeletewhen I say Bible studies are necessary, I mean that I don't need Bible studies to have a relationship with my Jesus. I can be a Christian with out Bible studies. I can homeschool without CC. But by having Bible studies, my faith has reached new levels and I have made forever friends who have helped me in my walk of faith. With CC, it has just helped us with more in depth learning, studies and discussion and I have made even more forever friends who share my vision to homeschool through highschool and walk along with me in my journey. CC moms and dads don't do all things the same, however, there is a shared vision to make the journey alongside friends for the fellowship and the accountability. We all know this is a long and sometimes difficult journey. It is rigorous to educate our children. It is so great to have a local community of friends that know why we are doing it and enjoy each other along the way. We all need good friends to help us through it!
ReplyDeleteI have heard glowing reviews, but wanted to free some people up to say: "this is not for me!" or "I'm not able to afford it." or "I can do classical education at home." or "I don't like it." I gave my reasons... I'm glad you are willing to share - no one else has here - just a lot of conversation on my FB link! AND I know what you mean about Bible studies..... Another friend said it was kinda like YOUTH GROUP. Not necessary, but totally enhances parents' efforts. That is a good summation too. That is good that there is support in your group - vision....
ReplyDeleteI too was initially skeptical about CC for many of your same reasons. I felt that my children were reading Classical books and that they didn't need to learn grammar. They would intuitively soak it in from the well-written literature they were reading. That was the popular philosophy of many at the time. I too felt that it was too expensive. I too wanted to have freedom to choose my children's books and curriculum. That being said, we all have our weaknesses. Some of mine were: keeping up with all the books my three sons were reading and discussing them, and teaching writing.
ReplyDeleteAs my eldest son was entering high school, I saw Classical Conversations as an opportunity to give him the discussion and understanding of the books he was reading, plus the accountability of another tutor and his peers to help him with his writing, and the added benefit of getting a chance to develop his public speaking and debate skills. Of course, we could not have afforded it otherwise, so I became a Challenge tutor. What I made the first and subsequent years was just enough to cover my books, my curriculum, and the registration and tuition of my 3 boys. So, sure, I did make money, but only to reinvest it. I am so thankful that God allowed me that opportunity because I it has enhanced our homeschool!
My eldest in graduating in a few days and is now a very accomplished writer. A feat I could not have helped him do alone. I encourage you to look into it further, by interviewing families who are currently in the program and are successful in it. I also want to say that this program isn't for everybody and I do agree that there are folks out there who can and have successfully graduated homeschoolers on their own and will continue to do so without CC! I think that is wonderful! I have some very good homeschool friends who are not in CC and are doing a fabulous job.
No program is perfect for every family or child. I do believe, however, that God is equipping families to homeschool through the tools offered in CC. Folks who would not have considered homeschooling, do so because they have the unique support that CC gives to them!
"As my eldest son was entering high school, I saw Classical Conversations as an opportunity to give him the discussion and understanding of the books he was reading, plus the accountability of another tutor and his peers to help him with his writing, and the added benefit of getting a chance to develop his public speaking and debate skills."
ReplyDeleteI appreciate your objective response. The problem I have with the quote above is this: why could a home school coop group offer the same opportunity with out charging such a high fee. Depending on where you live, this Challenge tuition could be 1/4 of the tuition for a private school. Private schools meet for 5 days/week and pay a salary. There has to be a better way than all the money that is exchanged. I hear that moms do not make money.... Form a coop class and everyone participate at no charge except books. AND, here is an idea: If you would charge $500-$1000/student, hire an actual debate / English teacher.
THANK YOU again for responding so politely. I do appreciate your comments and your tact! And actually, I believe I read your blog while doing all my research!!
I quit after being a director in my area for one year. We formed our own co-op and charged a $100 per family for the year (offering scholarships where needed). We continued for four years until those active in running needed to change their course due to children's ages etc. You've hit on many of the reasons we chose (as a group) to move on. One mom was very angry that we left but all others joined us the first year as a co-op.
ReplyDeleteAs far as the money, we were small and most of the money went straight to CC. with my large family I even ended up having to pay in as director and tutor.
Julie, I know a lot of larger families cannot afford to do the CC program. That is one reason I was unable to even to research the program for my children as I have four. Many see the value of the program; however, I can do the majority of the things at home and/or at a coop which offers a pubic speaking option.
DeleteMy friend set up a class with the local college to have a college professor teach a speech class to 7th - 12th grades for $50. This is a bargain for having a real teacher present the information, allow them to speak, and provide feedback to them. I'm looking for more of these type classes to set up for my coop!
Thank you for your input!!
Julie, how did it go when you quit? Was there an issue with your contract and forming a new group that quickly?
DeleteWhen we left and used our books at home with three other families I was chewed out by the director. She thought a tutor was joining us and breaking her contract. No contracted tutor joined us. We were careful not to replicate a community and shared the work instead of one mom being the tutor. We didn't charge anyone and we didn't call it CC. The director refused to believe a former tutor was not involved and she told other people in the CC group that I what I was doing was illegal. It was a very disheartening experience to be treated like that by the director.
DeleteI was actually a tutor and director of CC for several years. My daughter started CC in 3rd grade. She did Essentials and went all the way through Challenge B in which I was the director. There are things I really like about CC and things I’m choosing to do differently. Since starting CC, however, I feel there are better options. Here’s a synopsis.
ReplyDelete1. Essentials - My daughter told me not to do Essentials with my son because she never mastered english grammar. Most Essentials tutors use the analogy that Essentials is like throwing spaghetti against the wall. Not all of it will stick, but some will. The problem we ran into is that not enough stuck. I wish I would have done Easy Grammar or Analytical Grammar with her while she was in Challenge A & B, but I “trusted the system.” I know they consider Latin grammar, but it didn’t help in retaining everything necessary for high school writing.
With my son, I chose to do Easy Grammar in 3rd grade to introduce each part of speech. This year for 4th grade we used Winston Grammar and he learned to parse sentences one part of speech at a time. I can’t tell you how much I love Winston Grammar and how much easier it is than Essentials. (I’ll attach the picture cards Winston Grammar uses, however, I made my own adding some CC info.) Next year, I will use Analytical Grammar Jr. or Well-ordered Language 2 by Classical Academic Press if it’s published in time. Next year, my goal is to add diagrammimg.
I do like IEW but I prefer Writing & Rhetoric by Classical Academic Press because it allows for creativity. My son is doing Writing & Rhetoric 1 online through Classical Academic Press.
http://www.scholeacademy.com/#
My sister in law is doing IEW online through IEW.
http://iew.com/events-classes/online-classes
Another friend is doing a 5th grade writing/grammar class with Wilson Hill Academy and loves it. They use Shirley Grammar.
2. Challenge A - This was a great year for my daughter to learn to study and self-govern. Fortunately, she had a tutor that actually taught them in class which is a no - no, but it made it worth taking the class. I plan to have my son do classes through Classical Academic Press and Wilson Hill instead.
3. Challenge B - I did Challenge B because of Logic & Mock Trial. Current Events ended up being a highlight too. One thing that drives me crazy about CC is the pace of the work the kids are suppose to do. They don’t expect kids to master it the first time. I believe less needs to be done at a higher level. You need to learn to study for mastery. I will probably have my son do writing & Logic with Classical Academic Press and his other classes with Wilson Hill.
4. Challenge 1-4 - Science and math are a year behind especially if your child wants to pursue a career that requires them. I have learned, if possible, students should do Algebra in 8th, Geometry in 9th, Algebra 2 in 10th, etc. so they have covered what is necessary by the time they take the SAT & ACT.
Physical science, used in Challenge 1, is an 8th grade curriculum. It’s ok if your child is not STEM bound.
There is no true history curriculum. They read historical books and documents but there is no context. Tutors are not suppose to add to the curriculum so it’s up to the parent to fill in the historical gaps which few have time or the knowledge to do. I also think you need to start with ancient history, move to medieval history, etc. to understand our constitution with is studied first in Challenge 1.
I know many like CC, but I guess it basically comes down to - I want more. I also want the freedom to change curriculum I don’t like and choose inspiring teachers/classes for my children.
I am a first time home school mom. I have been approached about being a director for CC. My son is going into the 9th grade. I have concerns because if we join CC I'm afraid he will get behind. I don't know how rigorous the courses are. Unfortunately, my son is "paying" for years of public education. The only way I could pay for the course would be as a director. However, I would be director of 8th grade while teaching my son the 9th grade curriculum. Would I be able to keep up? I do like the freedom of choosing my own curriculum and doing it on our own schedule. I also like the idea of my son having one day a week to learn around his peers and having others to do speeches and debate with.
ReplyDeleteAny advice?